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[其他] 『ZT] 推荐好片《American Sniper》美国阻击手

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61#
发表于 2015-1-28 09:49:04 | 只看该作者
一身轻松 发表于 2015-1-28 09:09
独立宣言里拥枪是天赋人权之一,跟打不打得过正规军有啥联系,独立战争里没法国人的话也就没美国了

殖民 ...

独立宣言里拥枪是天赋人权之一?这是哪个位面的《独立宣言》?

这里有独立宣言的全文,拜托您找出来哪里说了“拥枪是天赋人权之一”?

出处:http://www.archives.gov/exhibits ... ion_transcript.html
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
    For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


如果英文不好的话,这里还有中文翻译:(出处:http://www.annian.net/show.aspx?id=6060&cid=14
大陆会议 (一七七六年七月四日)
美利坚合众国十三个州一致通过的独立宣言

在有关人类事务的发展过程中,当一个民族必须解除其和另一个民族之间的政治联系并在世界各国之间依照自然法则和上帝的意旨,接受独立和平等的地位时,出於对人类舆论的尊重,必须把他们不得不独立的原因予以宣布。

我们认为下面这些真理是不言而喻的 :
人人生而平等,造物者赋予他们若干不可剥夺的权利,其中包括生命权、自由权和追求幸福的权利。为了保障这些权利
,人类才在他们之间建立政府,而政府之正当权力,是经被治理者的同意而产生的。当任何形式的政府对这些目标具破坏作用时,人民便有权力改变或废除它,以建立一个新的政府
;其赖以奠基的原则,其组织权力的方式,务使人民认为唯有这样才最可能获得他们的安全和幸福。为了慎重起见,成立多年的政府,是不应当由於轻微和短暂的原因而予以变更的。过去的一切经验也都说明,任何苦难,只要是尚能忍受,人类都宁愿容忍,而无意为了本身的权益便废除他们久已习惯了的政府。但是,当追逐同一目标的一连串滥用职权和强取豪夺发生,证明政府企图把人民置於专制统治之下时,那麽人民就有权利,也有义务推翻这个政府,并为他们未来的安全建立新的保障——这就是这些殖民地过去逆来顺受的情况,也是它们现在不得不改变以前政府制度的原因。当今大不列颠国王的历史,是接连不断的伤天害理和强取豪夺的历史,这些暴行的唯一目标,就是想在这些州建立专制的暴政。为了证明所言属实,现把下列事实向公正的世界宣布
--

他拒绝批准对公众利益最有益、最必要的法律。

他禁止他的总督们批准迫切而极为必要的法律,要不就把这些法律搁置起来暂不生效,等待他的同意
;而一旦这些法律被搁置起来,他对它们就完全置之不理。

他拒绝批准便利广大地区人民的其他法律,除非那些人民情愿放弃自己在立法机关中的代表权;
但这种权利对他们有无法估量的价值,而且只有暴君才畏惧这种权利。

他把各州立法团体召集到异乎寻常的、极为不便的、远离它们档案库的地方去开会,唯一的目的是使他们疲於奔命,不得不顺从他的意旨。

他一再解散各州的议会,因为它们以无畏的坚毅态度反对他侵犯人民的权利。

他在解散各州议会之後,又长期拒绝另选新议会;
但立法权是无法取消的,因此这项权力仍由一般人民来行使。其时各州仍然处於危险的境地,既有外来侵略之患,又有发生内乱之忧。

他竭力抑制我们各州增加人囗; 为此目的,他阻挠外国人入籍法的通过,拒绝批准其地鼓励外国人移居各州的法律,并提高分配新土地的条件。

他拒绝批准建立司法权力的法律,藉以阻挠司法工作的推行。

他把法官的任期、薪金数额和支付,完全置於他个人意志的支配之下。

他建立新官署,派遣大批官员,骚扰我们人民,并耗尽人民必要的生活物质。

他在和平时期,未经我们的立法机关同意,就在我们中间维持常备军。

他力图使军队独立於民政之外,并凌驾於民政之上。

他同某些人勾结起来把我们置於一种不适合我们的体制且不为我们的法律所承认的管辖之下 ; 他还批准那些人炮制的各种伪法案来达到以下目的 :

在我们中间驻扎大批武装部队 ;
用假审讯来包庇他们,使他们杀害我们各州居民而仍然逍遥法外 ;
切断我们同世界各地的贸易 ;
未经我们同意便向我们强行徵税 ;
在许多案件中剥夺我们享有陪审制的权益 ;
编造罪名押送我们到海外去受审 ;


在一个邻省废除英国的自由法制,在那里建立专制政府,并扩大该省的疆界,企图把该省变成既是一个样板又是一值得心应手的工具,以便进而向这里的各殖民地推行同样的极权统治
;取消我们的宪章,废除我们最宝贵的法律,并且根本上改变我们各州政府的形式
;中止我们自己的立法机关行使权力,宣称他们自己有权就一切事宜为我们制定法律。

他宣布我们已不属他保护之列,并对我们作战,从而放弃了在这里的政务。

他在我们的海域大肆掠夺,蹂躏我们沿海地区,焚烧我们的城镇,残害我们人民的生命。


他此时正在运送大批外国佣兵来完成屠杀、破坏和肆虐的勾当,这种勾当早就开始,其残酷卑劣甚至在最野蛮的时代都难以找到先例。他完全不配件为一个文明国家的元首。

他在公海上俘虏我们的同胞,强迫他们拿起武器来反对自己的国家,成为残杀自己亲人和朋友的创子手,或是死於自己的亲人和朋友的手下。

他在我们中间煽动内乱,并且竭力挑唆那些残酷无情、没有开化的印第安人来杀掠我们追撞的居民 ;
而众所周知,印第安人的作战规律是不分男女老幼,一律格杀勿论的。

在这些压迫的每一阶段中,我们都是用最谦卑的言辞请求改善;
但屡次请求所得到的答覆是屡次遭受损害。一个君主,当他的品格已打上了暴君行为的烙印时,是不配作自由人民的统治者的。


我们不是没有顾念我们英国的弟兄。我们时常提醒他们,他们的立法机关企图把无理的管辖权横加到我们的头上。我们也曾把我们移民来这里和在这里定居的情形告诉他们。我们曾经向他们天生的正义感和雅量呼吁,我们恳求他们念在同种同宗的份上,弃绝这些掠夺行为,以免影响彼此的关系和往来。但是他们对於这种正义和血缘的呼声,也同样充耳不闻。因此,我们实在不得不宣布和他们脱离,并且以对待世界上其他民族一样的态度对待他们
: 和我们作战,就是敌人 ;和我们和好,就是朋友。


因此,我们,在大陆会议下集会的美利坚合众国代表,以各殖民地善良人民的名义,非经他们授权,向全世界最崇高的正义呼吁,说明我们的严正意向,同时郑重宣布;
这些联合一致的殖民地从此是自由和独立的国家,并且按其权利也必须是自由和独立的国家,它们取消一切对英国王室效忠的义务,它们和大不列颠国家之间的一切政治关系从此全部断绝,而且必须断绝
; 作为自由独立的国家,它们完全有权宣战、缔和、结盟、通商和采取独立国家有权采取的一切行动。

为了支持这篇宣言,我们坚决信赖上帝的庇佑,以我们的生命、我们的财产和我们神圣的名誉,彼此宣誓。

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62#
发表于 2015-1-28 09:54:56 | 只看该作者
一身轻松 发表于 2015-1-28 09:12
不是物权法,是“政治正确”

禁枪在独立宣言里是暴政的英国专制政府的罪状之一,也是殖民地独立的理由之 ...

您真的看过《独立宣言》吗?还“禁枪在独立宣言里是暴政的英国专制政府的罪状之一”。
  • TA的每日心情
    开心
    2023-4-1 00:01
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    [LV.9]渡劫

    63#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:04:11 | 只看该作者
    我说怎么这个帖这么多页。。。  等海盗湾一重开,我就去下~~ 本来对美国主旋律不太感冒。现在倒是有点儿想看了。。。

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    64#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:12:19 | 只看该作者
    孟词宗 发表于 2015-1-28 09:54
    您真的看过《独立宣言》吗?还“禁枪在独立宣言里是暴政的英国专制政府的罪状之一”。 ...

    呵呵,我承认,本人无意从事律师职业,对这些烦琐的法律条文没有仔细阅读

    研究一国历史却不研究该国重要文件确实不对,不过完全靠着自己的主观意愿却忽略该国历史明显更容易得到错误结论。对吧  

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    65#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:13:10 | 只看该作者
    tanis 发表于 2015-1-28 10:04
    我说怎么这个帖这么多页。。。  等海盗湾一重开,我就去下~~ 本来对美国主旋律不太感冒。现在倒是有点儿想 ...

    美国主旋律不错的。美国大片基本都主旋律。连《星球大战》都主旋律呢。

    至于本贴,主要是被我成功歪楼了。
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    慵懒
    2018-6-2 22:44
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    [LV.4]金丹

    66#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:15:42 | 只看该作者
    孟词宗 发表于 2015-1-28 04:17
    这案子如果在美国就是劫匪拿枪顶着那女的了。结局很可能是女的破财又丧命。如果那女的也带枪,那基本就铁 ...

    这案子在天朝,可能就是警察打死人质,然后冲着劫匪喊:里面的人听着,人质已经被击毙,放下武器出来投降!问题是你愿意当这个人质吗?
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    [LV.4]金丹

    67#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:19:58 | 只看该作者
    Highway 发表于 2015-1-27 11:02
    我已经预言了,男主角Cooper肯定是今年的奥斯卡男影帝。

    这部电影去年年底突然提前“点映”,意思很清楚, ...

    今年的金球奖可是很诡异啊,而且竟然把终身成就给了克鲁尼。
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    慵懒
    2018-6-2 22:44
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    [LV.4]金丹

    68#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:26:55 | 只看该作者
    一身轻松 发表于 2015-1-28 09:12
    不是物权法,是“政治正确”

    禁枪在独立宣言里是暴政的英国专制政府的罪状之一,也是殖民地独立的理由之 ...

    不可能禁枪的很大原因在于不能侵犯私人财产,从法律层面行不通,从现实层面没资金,也没能力。前两天看新闻挺逗,有个家伙利用某州现金换枪大挣了一笔,用铁管和木头做了一大批“枪”,不但自己去换钱,还出售给自己的邻居,结果收缴仓库都装不下了。

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    69#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:41:15 | 只看该作者
    包子 发表于 2015-1-28 10:26
    不可能禁枪的很大原因在于不能侵犯私人财产,从法律层面行不通,从现实层面没资金,也没能力。前两天看新 ...

    关键是法律不支持,否则就是有资金也没用,你收一只人家再买一只,玩腻了卖给政府收回点成本,基本现金收枪成了爱枪人士减少换枪成本的好途径了

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    70#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:46:04 | 只看该作者
    孟词宗 发表于 2015-1-28 04:17
    这案子如果在美国就是劫匪拿枪顶着那女的了。结局很可能是女的破财又丧命。如果那女的也带枪,那基本就铁 ...

    对你这种转进无语!
  • TA的每日心情
    慵懒
    2018-6-2 22:44
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    [LV.4]金丹

    71#
    发表于 2015-1-28 10:51:11 | 只看该作者
    一身轻松 发表于 2015-1-28 10:41
    关键是法律不支持,否则就是有资金也没用,你收一只人家再买一只,玩腻了卖给政府收回点成本,基本现金收 ...

    哪儿啊,找个水管子,找块木头就做一把,好多流浪汉都迅速掌握这个技能,然后去换酒喝了。有个奇葩的还在木头上写着史密森维森、柯尔特、勃朗宁、西格、HK、联合制造。
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    [LV.Master]无

    72#
     楼主| 发表于 2015-1-28 11:04:44 | 只看该作者
    包子 发表于 2015-1-28 10:51
    哪儿啊,找个水管子,找块木头就做一把,好多流浪汉都迅速掌握这个技能,然后去换酒喝了。有个奇葩的还在 ...

    这还真的可是算是前装枪啊
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    开心
    2022-4-16 03:01
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    [LV.7]分神

    73#
    发表于 2015-1-28 11:20:36 | 只看该作者
    这个算是支持禁枪吧?

    算我多嘴,但是枪支泛滥,这个世界上已经没有英雄可立足之处了。
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    [LV.9]渡劫

    74#
    发表于 2015-1-28 11:31:30 | 只看该作者
    包子 发表于 2015-1-28 10:26
    不可能禁枪的很大原因在于不能侵犯私人财产,从法律层面行不通,从现实层面没资金,也没能力。前两天看新 ...

    这个类似的新闻很早以前就看过。。。 当时还是一个艺术家在做类似的事。现在就变成全民皆兵了。。。

    我觉得不能禁枪很大原因在于那些军火商和起游说团。 比如这个侵犯私人财产,之前O8就想过要禁子弹之类的, 这样不就打一发少一发~
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    2023-4-1 00:01
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    75#
    发表于 2015-1-28 11:32:06 | 只看该作者
    东湖珞珈 发表于 2015-1-28 11:04
    这还真的可是算是前装枪啊

    打一发换个管子~~

    点评

    油菜: 5.0 给力: 5.0
    油菜: 5 给力: 5
    太有才了。是不是打完了还得换个套子?  发表于 2015-1-28 21:56
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    [LV.9]渡劫

    76#
    发表于 2015-1-28 11:42:10 | 只看该作者
    孟词宗 发表于 2015-1-28 10:13
    美国主旋律不错的。美国大片基本都主旋律。连《星球大战》都主旋律呢。

    至于本贴,主要是被我成功歪楼了 ...

    我也啰嗦一句,在米国枪肯定是禁不了的,我也不支持禁枪。 在国内,我也不支持开枪禁。

    不过总体而言,只要经济发展了,人口素质自然能上去。 再往后,经济哪怕发展很慢,人口素质还是会逐步提高。如果我没记错,米国的犯罪率一直是在下降的~

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    77#
    发表于 2015-1-28 13:41:14 | 只看该作者
    tanis 发表于 2015-1-28 11:42
    我也啰嗦一句,在米国枪肯定是禁不了的,我也不支持禁枪。 在国内,我也不支持开枪禁。

    不过总体而言, ...

    AGLEE。枪是禁不了的。禁不了枪,也说明这个社会还有底气和信心。所以反枪派也不用太悲愤。

    另外,那个谋杀好像是发生在靶场吧,所以即使禁了也没有用的。

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    78#
    发表于 2015-1-28 14:15:38 | 只看该作者
    本帖最后由 水杉 于 2015-1-28 14:18 编辑
    孟词宗 发表于 2015-1-28 04:17
    这案子如果在美国就是劫匪拿枪顶着那女的了。结局很可能是女的破财又丧命。如果那女的也带枪,那基本就铁 ...


    你再看看

    吉林一家三代三口人家中遇害 警方全城缉凶
    2015年01月28日 12:04
    来源:中国新闻网
    http://news.ifeng.com/a/20150128/43041461_0.shtml

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    79#
    发表于 2015-1-28 21:36:17 | 只看该作者
    水杉 发表于 2015-1-28 14:15
    你再看看

    吉林一家三代三口人家中遇害 警方全城缉凶

    你想用这个新闻说明啥呢?有枪的话那三口人就不会死?你有枪,歹徒也会有枪。
    回复 支持 1 反对 0

    使用道具 举报

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    80#
    发表于 2015-1-28 21:52:43 | 只看该作者
    tanis 发表于 2015-1-28 11:42
    我也啰嗦一句,在米国枪肯定是禁不了的,我也不支持禁枪。 在国内,我也不支持开枪禁。

    不过总体而言, ...

    不光是经济问题。美国60到90年代犯罪率很高。这和战后一代(Baby Boomer)进入成人期有很大关系。年轻人总是比较躁动。另外60到70年代也是美国民权运动和种族冲突最激烈的年代。进入90年代后,美国大力打击罪犯。当时监狱不够,甚至有私人提供建筑承包监狱的现象出现。而战后一代这时已经进入祖父期,能折腾的早就折腾完了,剩下的基本功成名就抱孙子了,也折腾不动了。

    至于现在则是犯罪率其实在悄悄抬头,但大家却基本没有意识到。可以看这篇盖洛普的调查报告:
    U.S. Crime Is Up, but Americans Don't Seem to Have Noticed

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