本帖最后由 dynthia 于 2015-9-24 12:45 编辑
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-24 12:33
如果没人提醒警方，警方可以装作没有看见；不说明超速地点，警方也可以不在自己jurisdiction为理由不受理 ...
一般来说，检察官如果拒绝起诉，根据职业道德守则，需回应直接受此决定影响者的质询而给出理由。即使这个职业道德守则也没有要求检察官向大众主动给出拒绝起诉的理由。在上面的例子中，“告发者”是否属于直接受决定影响的人，是可以商榷的。
dynthia 发表于 2015-9-24 12:43
一般来说，检察官如果拒绝起诉，根据职业道德守则，需回应直接受此决定影响者的质询而给出理由。即使这个 ...
不需要直接向大众解释，只是这质询方恰好是媒体……
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-24 12:45
不需要直接向大众解释，只是这质询方恰好是媒体……
同理，ICE没有一定要向媒体解释理由的义务。另外，回到这个案子，如果小女孩确实是公民，如果小女孩父母在美时间很长而且历史清白，那么ICE完全有理由拒绝启动驱逐程序——启动之后的结果有一定可能是导致他们合法转为绿卡，比不启动程序还快，因此启动驱逐程序有一定可能是浪费时间资源。
dynthia 发表于 2015-9-24 12:49
同理，ICE没有一定要向媒体解释理由的义务。另外，回到这个案子，如果小女孩确实是公民，如果小女孩父母 ...
没有问题，只要有人找到类似的事例而且ICE驱逐了那一家，自然会有人起诉ICE，告他们滥用权力。使用discretion的关键就是要defendable，而不是I just feel like。
本帖最后由 dynthia 于 2015-9-24 12:58 编辑
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-24 12:52
没有问题，只要有人找到类似的事例而且ICE驱逐了那一家，自然会有人起诉ICE，告他们滥用权力。使用discre ...
如果没有其它明显的问题，单凭这个是不能起诉ICE的。假定一个案子有70%可能驱逐成功，30%不成功（这个是随便假定的），ICE如果决定启动程序，那是努力争取好业绩，如果决定不启动程序，那是避免浪费资源，都是完全说得通的，defendable的。
另外，就算有其它问题，除了直接被驱逐的那一家人（或者再加上政府的民权机构），“有人”凭什么起诉ICE？他的权利遭到了什么损失？
本帖最后由 Dracula 于 2015-9-25 03:16 编辑
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-25 02:52
没有问题，只要有人找到类似的事例而且ICE驱逐了那一家，自然会有人起诉ICE，告他们滥用权力。使用discre ...
按照美国法律，你要起诉搞别人，必须要有standing，就是别人的行为得侵犯了你的利益。你的这个例子是明显没有standing的，法官马上就会给dismiss掉，连法庭审判都不会有。
dynthia 发表于 2015-9-24 12:55
如果没有其它明显的问题，单凭这个是不能起诉ICE的。假定一个案子有70%可能驱逐成功，30%不成功（这个是 ...
public interest
Dracula 发表于 2015-9-25 03:10
按照美国法律，你要起诉搞别人，必须要有standing，就是别人的行为得侵犯了你的利益。你的这个例子是明显 ...
非法移民侵占合法居民的资源是否可以作为standing？
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-24 13:57
public interest
generalized grievance is not enough basis for standing.
Dracula 发表于 2015-9-24 13:10
按照美国法律，你要起诉搞别人，必须要有standing，就是别人的行为得侵犯了你的利益。你的这个例子是明显 ...
那被驱逐的那家呢？
pcb 发表于 2015-9-24 13:57
非法移民侵占合法居民的资源是否可以作为standing？
Standing要求有明确的具体到个人的伤害，而不是泛泛而谈的和很多人共同遭受的影响。
MacArthur 发表于 2015-9-24 10:28
这就是EXACTLY为啥大家越来越喜欢Trump的理由 -- “反对非法移民”这话，都觉得说不出口，谁都不愿意挑头说 ...
不仅是装13的问题，还有非法移民带来的劳动力成本下降问题，这个应该是美国人容忍非法移民的重要原因。口号再好听，荷包更重要。
本帖最后由 dynthia 于 2015-9-24 14:10 编辑
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-24 13:58
那被驱逐的那家呢？
理论上如果确有伤害可以告，但是实际操作中肯定是困难重重。另外，“本来可以选择不驱逐我却一定要驱逐”不是伤害，“为什么驱逐了我而没有驱逐他”也不是伤害。可能有的伤害估计是“如果按照对他的标准，是没有任何合理理由拒绝对我宽大处理的，拒绝对我宽大处理完全是恶意的/随意的”，但即使这个伤害有可能也只能在驱逐程序的某些步骤中提出来要求重新考虑宽大处理，等被驱逐完了大约就晚了。
本帖最后由 晨枫 于 2015-9-24 14:14 编辑
dynthia 发表于 2015-9-24 13:58
generalized grievance is not enough basis for standing.
well, it is pointless for us to continue to argue. the good thing is it shouldn't take long before we see which way this will fall.
冰蚁 发表于 2015-9-24 11:03
不可以。就和超速一样。别人超速不是你就可以超速的理由。
你超速了还跑到警察那里卖弄，那就是另外一回事了。
晨枫 发表于 2015-9-25 03:58
那被驱逐的那家呢？
这一家给留下来了哪一点侵犯了被驱逐那家的利益了？
美国法律有standing的规定，就是为了防止以public interest 为名到处乱告，占用司法资源的情况发生。
牛铃 发表于 2015-9-24 11:06
把墨西哥合并了吧，United states of America and Mexico，呵呵，一次性解决偷渡问题。 ...
那只是消除了老墨非法移民问题，中南美洲非法移民一样存在。或者干脆，把南美洲的所有国家都收进来算了，这样保证没有中南美洲非法移民问题了。
老兵帅客 发表于 2015-9-24 14:04
那只是消除了老墨非法移民问题，中南美洲非法移民一样存在。或者干脆，把南美洲的所有国家都收进来算了， ...
本来就是United States of America嘛，又没有说是United States of North America。{:189:}
MacArthur 发表于 2015-9-25 00:10
多余。。。 “America”泛指美洲。。。 连大家拿一起拿过来了。。。
俺们不去~:@
As planned
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POPE_LITTLE_GIRL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-25-08-41-23
Immigration group planned girl's pope encounter for a year
By ALICIA A. CALDWELL
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sophie Cruz's encounter with the pope during a parade in Washington this week looked to be one of those spontaneous, once-in-a-lifetime-moments Francis has become known for.
But for 5-year-old Sophie, the chance to wrap her arm around the pope's neck as he offered a hug, kiss and a blessing unfolded as perfectly as it was scripted by members of a coalition of Los Angeles-based immigration rights groups. For nearly a year the group had been preparing the young girl from suburban Los Angeles to make a dash for the popemobile to deliver a message about the plight of immigrant parents living in the country illegally.
They had even pulled off a similar public-relations coup a year ago in Rome with a 10-year-old girl meeting the pope.
"We planned to do this from the moment we learned he was coming to the States," Juan Jose Gutierrez of the Full Rights for Immigrants Coalition told The Associated Press. "We have been working for a while now trying to sensitize the American public that dealing with immigration is not just dealing with the people who came in without proper documents but that we also have ... countless children whose parents are undocumented."
Gutierrez said the group decided to use the children of immigrants to represent their push for an immigration overhaul to the pope, a staunch supporter of migrants. "We have been looking for children to make the case that we as adults have been making for years," he said.
If Sophie had been unsuccessful in Washington attracting the pope's attention, Gutierrez said, she would have traveled with the group to New York and then Philadelphia to try again.
Though initially hesitant as security officials approached along the parade route, Sophie refused to the leave the pope's side Wednesday until a bodyguard took a handwritten letter and a T-shirt.
Her note to Francis detailed fears that her parents, immigrants from Mexico who don't have legal status in the United States, could be deported. But that risk is slight under the Obama administration's policies, which focus on deporting serious criminals.
"I believe I have the right to live with my parents," Sophie told the AP after her moment with the pope. "I have the right to be happy. My dad works very hard in a factory galvanizing pieces of metal. All immigrants just like my dad feed this country. They deserve to live with dignity. They deserve to live with respect."
Though Sophie was selected to hand-deliver an immigration message to Francis, Gutierrez said she crafted her own letter to the pope and wasn't prompted what to tell reporters who caught up with her later.
"She didn't have anyone coaching her," Gutierrez said. "She just spoke from her heart. It all came from her."
The same group orchestrated an equally successful effort in Rome last year with 10-year-old Jersey Vargas, who pleaded with Francis to urge President Barack Obama to free her immigrant father from a Louisiana detention center. Following Jersey's encounter, a relative helped post bond for the jailed dad.
Since her moment with the pope was captured on live television, Sophie has been interviewed by a variety of news outlets, and Thursday she met with Mexico's ambassador to the United States, Miguel Basanez.
Sophie and her supporters were preaching to the choir with Francis. In his remarks at the White House before the parade, the pope said, "As the son of an immigrant family, I am happy to be a guest in this country, which was largely built by such families." And in a historic speech to a joint meeting of Congress on Thursday, he urged lawmakers to respond to the migration crisis in Europe and U.S. immigration issues "in a way which is humane, just and fraternal."
As stage-managed as Sophie's effort was, that the pigtailed-5-year-old was able to wriggle her way onto the parade route along Constitution Avenue and get the pope's attention required a lot of luck considering the massive security entourage surrounding the pontiff.
Gutierrez said Sophie's success was helped by "being in the right spot at the right time," adding that he thought Francis may also have remembered meeting Jersey.
"When he saw this little girl," Gutierrez said, "he had to have known in his heart that this was another important message in the form of a little girl."
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Follow Alicia A. Caldwell on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/acaldwellap